Exactly so Nada... I always appreciate your comments and insights as I am not in touch with any Muslim women as everyone I knew went down the conventional path... it's partly why I feel so upset when witnessing women who could do so much with their lives, permitting themselves to be used and debased by males. This is where socialist women's analysis completey fails to explain why economically independent women accept painful degrading behaviour from the damn man also leeching off them